手艺人粗笨透气防水袋评测及实物图

michaelredd 发表于 2022-1-6 21:12 200D UHMWPE和150DDCF如果说用来做比较坚固的大包，我需要打个问号因为我第一个UHMWPE ...

ripstobytheroll 刚刚进货了这个系列的面料Challenge Sailcloth家的Ultra，直接点名了这个是palante和另外一个超有名的背包公司Lite AF用的。“In just over six months, this one material has swept through the high-end backpack, bag, and ultralight accessory market faster than anything we've ever seen.” 六个月内这个材料横扫高端背包市场，ripstopbytheroll的人都来从没见过架势这么迅猛的材料。还给了一个palante 写的对比DCF vs ULTRA的链接：https://palantepacks.com/Ultra-Weave-Specs

100，200，400，800D 都有有兴趣的话可以去搞一点：https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/challenge-sailcoth/products/challenge-ultra-200?variant=41972916125866

情迷孤松 发表于 2022-1-14 10:49 ripstobytheroll 刚刚进货了这个系列的面料Challenge Sailcloth家的Ultra，直接点名了 ...

还真挺有兴趣的
我自己也定制包耍，虽然动手能力比较差，不过认真找找还是能找到定制商

情迷孤松 发表于 2022-1-14 10:49 ripstobytheroll 刚刚进货了这个系列的面料Challenge Sailcloth家的Ultra，直接点名了这个是palante和另外 ... ...

对！这个ultra如果marketing做的好，干掉dyneema完全没问题！

发自8264手机版 m.8264.com

michaelredd 发表于 2022-1-14 11:06 还真挺有兴趣的我自己也定制包耍，虽然动手能力比较差，不过认真找找还是能找到定制商 ...

刚刚在reddit 上看到一个帖子。Palante 官方的说法是Ultra 这整块面料不容易delaminate，远强于Xpac (他们做了一大堆很变态的实验，啥高温烘干 室外低温 然后把面料柔成一个球)。 但是第一批用户（他们家第一个ultra的包是一年前发售的Desert Pack）发现缝纫过的地方有些delaminate。Palante 可能自己也意识到这个问题了，在后续推出的simple back V2 Ultra 版本里面把缝纫过的而且估计有高压的地方都贴了一遍。这个可能是个雷区 看看后续厂商是怎么处理的吧

Desert Pack: https://imgur.com/a/SwLIEGD
Simple Pack V2 https://imgur.com/a/ic1BLQJ

原文：
For those of you wanting to jump on the Ultra hype train, make sure that whoever is making your pack is taping the seams. At the very least in the high stress areas. I noticed pretty extensive delamination of the inside laminate of my Desert Pack. It’s seen about 700km of use since early April. It’s occurring right along the seams. It appears that because the seams aren’t taped the needle holes cause the laminate to weaken and then curl up and flake off the weave over time. Pics. I’m yet to get an answer as to whether this will affect the structure of the weave. Pa’lante are taping the seams of their Ultra 200 V2s along the high stress areas. I would have liked to have seen it taped all over. I’ve got delam in areas of the desert pack that aren’t taped on the V2. I contacted a few pack makers and it seems most are taping which is good to hear. I contacted Pa’lante I was offered a replacement desert pack when they release the next iteration. Apparently some will be in purple gridstop. Andy thinks that the delamination won’t spread much further away from the seams. I’ll keep using the pack and see what happens.
Apart from the laminate issue I still think this fabric is pretty amazing. Hopefully the taping solves the problem.

情迷孤松 发表于 2022-1-18 03:02 刚刚在reddit 上看到一个帖子。Palante 官方的说法是Ultra 这整块面料不容易delaminate，远强于 ...

不容易delaminate这个是什么意思？
我理解可能有两个表达：
1、脱层
2、脱线开线之类的
结合上下文感觉像是缝纫处撕裂之类的意思

michaelredd 发表于 2022-1-18 09:49 不容易delaminate这个是什么意思？我理解可能有两个表达：1、脱层2、脱线开线之类的 ...

de-laminate 一般指多层复合材料（laminated material）变得不再 laminated。也就是多层原材料不在一起，分开了，也就是脱层。这个词很少很少会指撕裂之类的问题。正如psnake 所说 Ultra 和DCF 都是膜防水：在UHMWPE上贴了一层薄薄的膜。palante 也提到：The 200 Ultra backing is .5mil (.5oz) recycled polyester film.  This is laminated to the Ultra weave for waterproofness and bias stability. 但是这个UHMWPE + polyester film的贴合很难做。很多人怀疑这个贴合的不稳。所以palante 做了一些实验：在400D的ULTRA材料上（Desert Pack 用料）
（1）放在零下12C 12小时（2）柔成一团然后展开 （3）放洗衣机搅动40min（4）高温烘干1小时。这一通操作下来没有发现任何delaminate 脱层问题。 测试到这里基本上对这个材料的laminate性能表示认可 并不是所有复合材料laminate material 可以扛住着一桶操作。Xpac 就完全扛不住 （Xpac是尼龙+ 聚酯纤维的结构）。给的图片链接可以明显看在在高压的部分，Desert Pack这个防水的膜开始有点脱落的迹象。猜测是密集的针眼使得这个膜和UHMWPE的贴合出现松动。更严重的分层会从这些缝纫过的地方开始发展。所以推荐贴住缝纫过的部分。

palante 原文
Some people have asked about the laminating quality of the Ultra fabric, as they know it is hard to stick to the UHMWPE fiber.  Here’s some info you can share with your customers:

We tested the 400d version, which is in the new Pa’lante packs:
We first put a bag made with Ultra 400 outside for 12 hours at -12C (10F).
The bag was scrunched-up into a ball, then smoothed out: no delamination.
The fabric was then put in washing machine for a 40 minute cycle:, fill/agitate/spin/fill/agitate/spin: no delamination.
The Ultra 400 was then machine dried for 1 hour at high heat: after checking, no delamination.

For reference, there are not many laminated pack fabrics that can pass these tests; certainly not X-Pac which has nylon face fabric laminated to polyester backing.

2022-1-20 11:19 上传

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有幸拥有过一个品牌定制的cuben包

psnake 发表于 2022-1-5 19:08 [楼上的兄弟姐妹，广大户外爱好/从业者们，既然本人被主要点名了，还是有必要说一下，长久以来关于dyneema、大力马、 ...

还是有纯大力马编织面料的，我一个包就那做的

我那个HMG的大力马包到手就解毒，以后是不会再买类似UL包，现在就扔角落里吃灰

michaelredd 发表于 2022-1-14 11:06 还真挺有兴趣的我自己也定制包耍，虽然动手能力比较差，不过认真找找还是能找到定制商 ...

Zpacks 已经出了成品了. 黑色的是200D，灰色的是100D https://zpacks.com/products/arc-haul-ultra-60l-backpack